Creating a Business That Will Make You Money
- Completion time About 40 minutes
Mary: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to another Fireside Chat hosted by Grasshopper Academy. My name is Mary Mallard. I'm the Social Media and Community Specialist here at Grasshopper, and I'll be your host today. Our chat is creating a business idea that will make you money. So why are we talking about this today? We're talking about building a business idea because a lot of people have ideas, but they're really just not sure if they're going to work. So today, our panelists will discuss a bunch of topics, including types of businesses to pursue, how to go about your competitor research, securing funding, and a lot more. Whether you're in the planning stages of a new venture or you just have an idea and don't know where to start, our panelists will cover things to help you today.
So I'm going to take a minute to introduce our panelists. We have Shannon Ware, owner of The Collective. Steve Feinman, District Director of SCORE, District 515, and Lisa Coots-Schooley, the owner of Splurge Boutique was on our bill today, but unfortunately, she had an emergency, so she won't be joining us. But if you want to learn more about our panelists, their bios are further down on this landing page, you can check those out. We'll also have social media correspondents that will be live-tweeting on Twitter using the #FRSDChat, so you can follow along with them as well. They're located further down on the page.
So just a few more things before we start. We'll dedicate 15 minutes at the end of the chat for questions, so please feel free to ask them. There is an e-mail submit box on this page, and you can also tweet at us @Grasshopper with the #FRSDChat for all your questions. We do want to say thanks to our sponsors that help us with this chat. You can find their logos down at the bottom of the page. And you'll also see a purple button that has a survey. So at the end of the chat, if you could just take a few minutes to take that survey, it'll help us continue to improve these fireside chats. All right, let's get started.
Defining Business Opportunities
Steve, why don't you take the first question? "What are the top three things you need to consider when you're first defining your business idea?"
Steve: I always tell my clients there are three or four questions you always have to answer. Many people really don't consider those. The first one is, "What are you selling"? It's not just a tangible portion of what you're selling. But you're selling things including your brand. So what are you selling? The second question is, "Who are you selling it to?" Who are your customer segments? And the third important thing is, "Why should they buy from you?" Those are the three things I always start a discussion with in terms of the business to get their ideas focused and define those three things that they have to deal with.
Mary: Definitely great points. Shannon, what about you?
Shannon: Yeah. We also ask our clients a similar round of questions. Some other things that you can kind of expand off of with that is, "Is this something that I still want to be doing in five years?" This is a huge commitment that you're making when starting a business. And you don't have to love it every day, but it is something that you need to have an interest in, too. Because it takes a little while to get something off the ground.
Another concept also to consider is just the idea of being flexible. And knowing that your idea, even though you feel like it's defined now, will pivot and change throughout the course of your business launching. So just to be flexible and be open to that. Just making sure that we're giving people what they want and what they need.
Steve: Another important thing is you're always present. You can never be absent with that lead. You have to be in place in your business all the time. The business is you, and without you, there is no business. It's important to be present.
Mary: Okay, great. So sounds like basically, you need to define your business, what you're selling, who you're selling to. And just make sure that you think it's something that you'll be able to keep up with in the next five years. So those are great points.
Conducting Market and Competitive Research
All right. So we have our business idea. The next thing that we have on our list that a lot of people don't think of, I feel like, is conducting market research and competitive research. So talk a little bit about what the importance of conducting market research is.
Steve: Well, who your competition is will define...and in part, define your chances of success. So the market research is to find out who's doing what you're doing, or are you doing something special? And how are they doing it, and what you can do to make a better value proposition. Part of the market research is so that you can craft a value proposition that differentiates you from your competitors. And there's all sorts of data out there for you to do that with, and there are many databases that you can use.
For example, there's one called ReferenceUSA, which is available at libraries, and Google buys a lot of their data from ReferenceUSA. And Business Decisions is another database that we refer clients to. But also, you can do things just in the neighborhood with your chamber of commerce. But many people haven't even bothered to open their Web browser and type in whatever their business idea is and see what pops up. So the idea of knowing who your competition is is critical, because then, it becomes the question about, "Why should they buy it from you instead of the competition?"
Shannon: Yeah, and I think also just making sure that there's a need for what you're doing. Making sure that people actually want and need the product, or you, or the service that you're offering them. And based on the research that you conduct over that, like who your customer base is, and what it is that they're looking for, and what they're not getting from your competitors so that you can create a space for yourself. And like he said, just create value for your own business.
Steve: One of the things that I recommend to all my clients, no matter what business they're going in, there's a technique that helps you outline the logic of your business which deals with these issues. It's called the Business Model Canvas. And it's a visual canvas business plan, so that you can see the connection between your value propositions, the channels of distribution to your clients, and your client segments. And that helps you focus in breaking down those segments, so that you can look at the differentiators, and look at whether that what you're offering is needed.
And in the biotech industry, the business model canvas is viewed as a set of testable hypotheses. And you can download this free on the Internet. Just type in "Business Model Canvas." There's a free model and there's lots of stuff about it. But it's very easy for a budding entrepreneur and an experienced entrepreneur to lay out the logic of the business, so that they can test their ideas easily.
Mary: Great. So Steve, you actually mentioned a couple of Internet resources for conducting research. Do either of you have any tried and true methods for conducting research? Like, interviews or surveys, or questionnaires? What do you recommend other than the Internet?
Steve: Well, the ReferenceUSA...those are library-type databases. We also use live surveys, going around and talking to people in similar businesses in an area or out of the area to see what they're selling or how they're doing it. And then we also interview clients. Now, if there's a business doing something similar to what you want to do, talk to the clients. And those are tried and true techniques. Hard questionnaires, not so much in my experience. But the databases and talking to people are most important.
Shannon: Yeah, there's a concept of just getting out of your building and asking questions. Trying to make sure that you ask those questions and you talk to people that have an unbiased opinion on what it is that you're doing. Because if you talk to your family and they said, "It's a great idea, you should do it," you could be throwing a lot of time and money down the drain because they didn't want to hurt your feelings.
Just making sure that the questions you're asking are also not necessarily pushing your idea on them, but pulling information out of them. So making sure that you target and you're strategic about things that you're asking. Like, what problems are they facing in this general area of your product or service? Why do they feel like they have that problem? Why aren't they able to fix that for themselves? What do they feel like is missing?
Just to be able to really formulate the actual need and desire of your target customers. And being able to collect all that data, I think there's a lot of value in questionnaires, and kind of forms, and different types of marketing research, and things that you can do on your website. There's a whole number of things that you can do. But I feel like the most value comes from actual conversations with people.
Steve: Listening is important. One of the things that a lot of people don't do is they don't listen. They tell, but they don't listen back to what the response is, or what the client is really saying. And what the service is or isn't, because most people focus, in my experience, on the tangible product. What they get, oftentimes, is the client is buying more than the tangible product. The client is buying you. They're trusting you with some decision they're about to make. And you're selling something, but they're maybe buying something else in addition to that tangible product. And part of what they're buying is always the trust, and part of what they're buying is not necessarily the use that you intended for that product.
Shannon: Right. And also...sorry, you can finish. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
Steve: I'm done.
Shannon: Okay. I think that also just with the way that marketing is shifting and changing over the past couple of years is so content and user experience-heavy, that you need these conversations in how people are describing what it is that you're doing, and the product or service that you're offering, so that you're able to create quality content that actually engages with your customer. And you can create an experience that maybe your competitors aren't able to create for them.
So again, these conversations in listening and making sure that you're asking the right questions, all of that can formulate, basically, your strategy of how you want to launch this product or service.
Steve: A lot of marketing today is referential marketing. So you have to understand who's saying what to who about what you're doing.
Identifying the Validity of the Idea
Mary: So Shannon, you actually mentioned asking the right questions. What would you say are the top three questions you should try to answer with your research?
Shannon: Oh, man. I think as far as just personal things that you're asking, the top three is tough because there's a lot that you should be trying to figure out. But what's the purpose? What is it that you have to offer? And using that research to really answer that question, and who it is that you're...who is your audience? That's everything. Is who is it that you're selling to, and who are you creating this experience for?
Also, is this something that people actually need? Is there a gap in this industry that you're able to fill?
Steve: It's also, is it something they want? It's not necessarily a need, it's a want. But identifying the client segments and what they desire is extremely important, seeing how you can fulfill it.
Competitive Research vs. Traditional Market Research
Mary: Yeah, awesome. So moving on a little bit, we talk about market research and competitive research. I feel like sometimes those two terms are used interchangeably. So could each of you just kind of talk about your definition of how competitive research is different than traditional market research?
Steve: In my view, it's not. It's always competitive research.
Shannon: I was actually going to answer the same way. I don't really think there is that much of a difference.
Steve: I have clients come in and they have four different market research books. It's all the same thing. The real problem I see with a lot of clients coming into see us is they fall into the trap that they find in business plans, that you need to know what the entire world market is for your product. Yeah, you have to know what the market is in where you're selling the product. And anything you do about marketing research is competitive research. Who's your competitor? What are they selling? What are the characteristics of what they're selling? How are you going to differentiate your product from their product or service? To me, it's always competitive research.
Creating Your Business Budget
Mary: Great. No, that definitely makes sense. So moving on a little bit, let's talk about everyone's favorite subject, budgeting. Budgets are the thing that are definitely necessary, but a lot of people tend to jump over because it's boring, or they just don't know how to do it, or it's overwhelming. But talking about a budget, what are the top three things, maybe four, that you need to consider when you're first creating your business budget?
Steve: You have to differentiate between what your fixed cost is and what your variable costs are. A lot of people don't make that distinction. And they also have to consider what their investment is in terms of getting a return or a recapturing cost that they have to lay out in the initial phases.
And so, in budgeting, you also have to start to look at your cash flow. A lot of people don't start with the chart of accounts. What are the accounts that are necessary to your business? Which of those are monthly, going to be every month, and which of those are going to vary with the level of service you provide? And that should be able to be gotten. There's a lot of information on that available on the Internet and in a library. But just breaking it down and listing it is something that a lot of people fail to do.
And I would say that a lot of times, the entrepreneur gets trapped because they want to do everything. They have to have the basic concept of the budget. They have to know what it is. But somebody else can do the details for them. You could always hire somebody. The entrepreneur's business is to sell, to make things.
Shannon: Yeah, I think that really being honest with yourself about whether or not you're the right person to decide on...make those decisions for your business. Personally, I try and stay away from numbers as much as I possibly can. So that was one of our first decisions that we made when we started this business, is let's bring somebody in that really knows how to look at our strategy and help us figure out how much we need, how much we're going to be spending.
And another thing, you have your whole marketing business plan and your idea of what you want to do, and the product you want to launch. And I think one of the big things with budget, too, is who do you need on your team to really get this stuff done and to get it off the ground? And there, you can figure out...that's kind of a starting point.
And again, obviously consider the fixed costs, and just the general, you know, your variable costs and things of, "What is it that we actually need to start moving?" And just take small steps at a time. You don't have to call in investors from the very first month or very first concept or idea of spreading this business. It's more of, "Let's figure out what we're doing, let's see how to get this started, and just take it month by month in just small chunks."
Pitching for Funding
Mary: Yeah, definitely. So along the line of budgeting, let's move into pitching, so pitching for funding. Not necessarily to investors, but to people that may...I guess they would be investors. They will give you money for your business. So what would you define as the main goals for pitching your idea, if you're pitching for funding?
Steve: I think first, there's a very famous book, or old people think it's a famous book anyhow called, "You Are the Message," by Roger Ailes. And it talks about the first three minutes of the pitch. And basic things are, "What's the problem you're solving? How are you solving it? And why your solution is the best." And those are the three elements of any pitch that you need. You only have a very short time to build trust with a VC or any other audience you're dealing with. So those are the things that we focus on.
There's another book out, that's very good for people who are making a pitch. It's a YouTube by a woman named Amy Cuddy. It's called "Presence." I recommend it to everybody to look at. It's about the use of body language and view of body language by who you're pitching to, and how you're perceived in making your pitch.
Shannon: Yeah, I think a lot of times, you're pitching yourself just as much as you're pitching your idea. So it's creating...not necessarily "creating," but just being authentic. This is something that you're passionate about that you know is solving a problem just like what he said. And just make sure that you share that passion and you emphasize what value this product or this idea is going to be bringing. That maybe other opportunities that they might have had for investment, you know, why you stand out, why you are different from that. And again, all of your market and competitive research will help define those areas. But really emphasize what makes you different than what anybody else in your industry is doing.
Steve: And in part, you're creating your brand. This is your brand, and trustworthiness is part of your brand, and you have to convey that with passion in your pitch. If you're not conveying that your brand is trustworthy, then why should they invest? They're looking for the least risk and the big benefit, of course. But they're looking for the least risk, for the maximum benefit.
Pitching Best Practices
Mary: Right. So you both started to get into this a little bit, but what are your top best practices for pitching your business? Is it length of your pitch? Is it the passion? Is it what you wear? What really, do you consider best practices?
Steve: All of the above.
Mary: You've got to look good.
Steve: It all matters. You're creating your brand. Your brand starts with what you look like coming in. Your brand starts with your body language. And brand starts with what's the problem you're solving, and how you're solving it, and whether you seem to believe what you're saying. And then you get down to the ask. But they all matter.
Shannon: You know, going back to that user experience, too. Creating an experience for that investor. From the minute that they sit down, until that conversation or that pitch is over. Making sure that you emphasize...again, you have to be passionate. You have to make sure that all your visual elements are in place, and that you are representing your brand and yourself in the best possible way in your product.
Funding for Different Business Types
Mary: Great, okay. Now, getting into a little bit more granular level, talking about best types of funding for different businesses. So what would you say is the best type of funding for an eCommerce business, and who should you pitch to for that type of funding?
Steve: "Best type" is an interesting concept, but it doesn't resonate, and "best type," is when you don't have to borrow anything. If you look at the Kauffman Foundation studies on funding, it's your savings first, friends and family, then credit cards, then banks, and then venture capital. And venture capital is good, but you're giving up a piece of it.
But the alternate funding sources that are available now make lots of businesses come to fruition that wouldn't have had a chance before. Crowdfunding. There's a great video, a great story of a woman who created a firm called "GoldieBlox." Funded that on crowdfunding. There's lots of things on crowdfunding and micro-lending from organizations like tba.org for certain levels of funding. And then there's the angel funding. It depends on the level of angel funding you need. Now, banks are often a last resort because they're not risk takers. They want assets. But it depends on the particular need.
Shannon: Yeah. This isn't an area I'm totally familiar with, but in my experience with working with different startups and people who are entering into that pitching investment stage and different mentoring opportunities that I've been a part of, it's really unique to what you're wanting. How much ownership do you want over your product, your idea, your brand? And that's really going to dictate what type of funding you have.
It's always best if you don't need it, because then, you have complete creative control and you have control over every decision that's made for your business. So bootstrapping and looking for any maybe specialized grants that are available for your type of product or industry.
But yeah, I think it's just really...you just have to make sure that the person that you're seeking funding from is going to align with your desires and your vision for where your brand and your product is going
Steve: I think one of the things that's often overlooked is that not everybody is looking for lots of funding. Now, a lot of the clients we see, most of the clients that I've seen are looking for less than $50,000 to get started, initially. And a lot of times, one of the things that a lot of people rail against is using credit cards. But we have several companies in Michigan that are doing...one of them is now doing $40 million a year that was funded on his credit card.
There was an article in a paper recently in Michigan about a woman who wrote her first bestseller on Amazon, and used ten credit cards to fund the creation of a new book publishing company. It depends on the requirements of the business. There's no one best funding. It depends on what stage you're in and what you're looking for to get started.
Mary: So then, it would be safe to say, just to cover it, this would also apply to funding for a brick and mortar business?
Steve: Yes. As an example, most people don't look at this, but in Michigan, there are 857,000 small businesses. 636,000 of them have no employees. A lot of small businesses that aren't looking that can be very successful at a very small level, success is relative to the owner's desires. So it doesn't have to be a big investment. It could be a small investment. That's why savings, family and friends, credit cards work well in a lot of situations.
Mary: Great, okay. So just so our audience is aware, we're coming up on the last question. So if you would like to submit any audience questions if anyone out there has a question, again, you can use the box that's on the landing page. Or you can submit on Twitter @Grasshopper using the #FRSDChat.
Securing Your Business Idea
So our last question, I feel like might be something that's on a lot of people's minds. "How do you pitch your idea without it being stolen?"
Steve: Be fast. Mark Twain said something to the effect...of course, I don't have the exact quote. But he said, "If you want to be successful, you have to start." I have one SCORE client. He's not really a SCORE client, but I've been seeing this fella at shows for the last eight years, and he has the best idea for a project management plan. It's the best plan in the world. It's still not on the market because he doesn't trust anybody to write the software.
Well, the point is is that if it's going to be stolen, it's going to be stolen, and there's legal action for it. And if you're so worried about it being stolen, spend money on a lawyer. But the real point is, if a big company steals it, you don't have the money to go after it anyhow. So you may as well get in the marketplace to start making money and attract people, and see what happens.
Shannon: Yeah, and I think that a lot of good ideas stem from some sort of internal passion or something, a personal passion that you have, or a skill set, or maybe an expertise that you might have that not a lot of other people do. So even if they say that's a great idea, the fact that they would be able to carry it out the same way that you would and offer the same amount of value that you would is pretty slim.
So just trust yourself, and trust that you...this is your idea. This is something that you want to make unique to what you have. And again, you are your brand, you are part of that. So nobody can necessarily take that from you. And also, again, it's just trust. You just have to know that if it gets stolen, then maybe, you know, just maybe that was a really good idea and you probably have more. Just keep on writing out those ideas and brain dumping, and try and come up with a new concept.
Questions from the Audience
Mary: Great. That was actually our last question. We don't seem to have any audience questions coming in. So do either of you have any last thoughts before we wrap up here? Anything that we didn't cover that you just thought of that you wanted to say?
Steve: I'd just like to mention again, and I think if people are starting to think about a business plan, the first step might be this visual plan and business model canvas. And there's a nice two-minute video. I don't have any ownership in it, by the way. By the way, this was crowdfunded several years ago by a fella in Austria and his partner. But it's a good way to look at your business plan and concept, and give you guidance on things you should consider.
Patent vs. Trademark
Mary: Okay, so it actually looks like we did get one question that just came in. Someone is asking for a small business with hair products, specifically, but I suppose this could go for any sort of product. "Is it better to patent or trademark?"
Steve: Trademark's nice, but that's not product. That's name.
Mary: So differentiation?
Steve: Patent's nice, but I just found out today because one of our people's in the cosmetics business, is that the patent doesn't do much for you in the beauty supply business. Because you have ways of protecting your material based on the limited disclosure that you have to do about your product.
For example, if it's a perfume, you don't have to say what the ingredients are in the perfume. You have to declare it a fragrance. And so, there are other methods. And patents aren't guaranteed. Patents take a long time. A provisional patent is just that, it's provisional. And the patent...I often find clients coming in who say, "Well, I need to get this patented first." Well, the patent application delays you getting into business. You may not have the perfect product with a patent. And trademark, again, depends on how much money you have to fight.
Mary: All right, well, thank you for the answer to that question. It doesn't look like anything else came in. So Shannon, do you have anything else that you wanted to add that you didn't get to?
Shannon: I think we covered pretty much all the areas. I would just like to express again just the importance of authentic and strategic conversations with people. Before you spend the time and invest any sort of money or attention to an idea, this type of research, whether it's between market and competitive research is the most crucial stage in anything that you're doing. Because that's going to dictate your strategy. It's going to dictate your actual...the look and feel of your brand. So just making sure that you really don't short side yourself on that. That you really take the time to really learn about what it is that your target customers are wanting and needing.
Choosing Between Business Ideas
Mary: Great, okay. I just got...we might have a few more questions here. Let me just double-check. Okay, we do have some other questions, great. So first question is, "What's the best way to choose which business idea to pursue when you have so many new business ideas that could do well?"
Steve: Part of the purpose of looking at the business model canvas visual business plan is to see which one of those that actually has a logic. A lot of people don't look at the logic of their business, and so, part is the screening mechanism. And one of the key reasons people fail is they fail to focus on a particular thing. Now, if you're starting a business, start a business, you can always expand. When trying to start multiple businesses at the same time is a clear path to difficulties or failure, in my opinion.
Shannon: Also, I think that once you lay out all of the different elements that go into each of these ideas, which one brings the most value could be one way to narrow it down or maybe prioritize those concepts. Also, which is the easiest to start? Which is the one that you can afford to do right now, and maybe use that almost practice or a guinea pig to lead you into bigger ideas and bigger concepts.
Because you really...it does, it takes a lot of work, and you do need to focus on one idea at a time. Because if you have tons of things happening all at the same time, it's just...the over-commitment of you, and it's just, it's not going to be as successful as it would be if you really put all your focus into one idea.
Steve: Yeah. The other thing is a lot of people get started. And if they're doing multiple things, they're unable to do a very crucial thing for many young businesses, and that's pivot. There's no business plan that stays the same all the time. There's always changes and you have to be able to adjust. Now, if you're trying to juggle too many things, you can't adjust everything at one time.
Asking for Referrals
Mary: Definitely. All right. Next question is, "What is the best way to ask for a 'good referral' when you're first starting out with your business?"
Shannon: Well, we always have follow-up sessions with any clients that we have, and we encourage the clients that we're helping them start their businesses, too, to do that also just to get feedback. That's how you grow, and that's how you measure success, and that's how you adapt and make whatever your service or product is better.
So from that feedback, just ask honest questions and hope that you get honest feedback from them. Yeah, I would just say that.
Steve: I agree. Ask people. Talk to people. When you're mentoring or working with somebody, "Is what I'm saying useful? Is this product useful? What could we do to make the product better?" And that will lead to better referential marketing.
Getting New Customers
Mary: Definitely. Great. Next question, which I think is something that's on a lot of people's minds. "How do we get new customers?"
Steve: Market. If you don't go out...many people keep asking that, but many people aren't willing to realize that marketing is an investment. You're marketing your brand all of the time. You're never off-duty as an entrepreneur. Whatever you're doing is marketing your brand. Are you networking? Are you active on social media? Are you responding to things? What are you reading to know, get new ideas, or new sources of potential customers? It's always, you need to have an active, ongoing, growing marketing plan. That's how you get new customers.
So you have to understand who your customer segments are, what are the channels to these customers, and what are the value propositions that they want that you're offering them?
Shannon: Yeah, I think it's constantly updating your strategy to drive the most engagement. You want to get as close to one-on-one conversations with people as possible, or at least to feel like you're having one-on-one conversations with people. So using your research and constantly expanding your research to find out where your customers are.
Which channels on social media are they? Which stores are they shopping in? What shows are they watching on TV? You can get as detailed as that. Just to figure out, "How can I...with all of these different elements of my brand and my product, how can I reach people and get as close to one-on-one conversations with people to learn more about them as possible?"
Steve: There's a good book that I recommend by the woman who just sold her company called Constant Contact. Gail Goodman wrote a book called "Engagement Marketing." It's an easy read and it lays out a lot of the things you should be doing. And for people who want to see a real-life example of good engagement marketing, ongoing change, there's a group of stores...not "stores." It's what they call a community of business in Michigan, in the Ann Arbor area called Zingerman's. I recommend everybody look up their site, the website, and see their engagement marketing process.
Shannon: Yeah, there's tons of tools available, too, to encourage that engagement and entice people. LeadPages is one thing that's been great. You can set up landing pages and basically dictate and map out and design every point of contact from a customer from each channel that you are marketing in. So that's something to look into. Also, if you have a business in growth mode, that's a really viable option. It's really affordable, and they're super helpful with helping you map out what that engagement map and those funnels look like.
When to Expect Results
Mary: Cool, yeah, thank you. Those are all really great resources. Let's see, this looks like our last question. And I suspect this would depend on the type of business. But "How long does it take for new small businesses to see real results and profits?"
Steve: Your first proposition is correct. It depends on what kind of business. There's no easy answer. I have some clients who see success right away. But that's typically a service business without a lot of heavy investment. Other clients take longer. I have a client that's in the fashion industry that's been working out six months and they're finally ready to get into the marketplace. It could be longer. But that's part of your planning process, is to look at what your potential market is, and how long it's going to take to reach it.
Shannon: Yeah, and I think is one thing to look at when you're in that stage of your business is is there any progress being made anywhere? And it might not be necessarily be financial progress right at the beginning, but are you making connections with people? Are people enjoying and using your project? Is there an interest? Not to overkill that word, but is there engagement in what I'm doing in my brand? That'll dictate whether or not you've got the right idea and you're moving in the right direction. But there's no way of knowing how long it takes to start really making money, unfortunately.
Mary: There's no magic formula, unfortunately. All right, well, I think that's the end of our audience questions. So I'd like to thank our panelists and thank our audience for spending this time with us today. If anyone does have any extra questions, feel free to send them in. We will be asking the panelists to answer them if you think of something later.
Please remember to take the survey. You can click the purple button that's right underneath this video to give us feedback to make sure that we can keep improving these Fireside Chats and make them better for you. And a summary of this Fireside Chat as well as the video will be emailed to everyone who had entered their e-mail to RSVP in the coming weeks. So we'll have the recorded video and it'll be a resource for you to take a look at.
So Shannon and Steve, thank you again.
Steve: You're welcome.
Mary: This was really helpful.
Shannon: Thank you.
Mary: And we will hopefully see you soon. Have a good afternoon, everyone.